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I can't say what I hope that we find

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because I don't know but I just hope

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that this sets a standard that you can

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do science that is looking into

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phenomena whatever that phenomena may be

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and I think that's one of the ways we

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can at least as young people like help

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this discussion is to just talk about it

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more and do it in a sense that isn't

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talking about Sci-Fi movies but actually

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talking about people's jobs and and how

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welcome to merge I'm Ryan Graves today

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we're joined by Abby White

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Abby is a research fellow with the

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Galileo project at the Harvard and

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Smithsonian Center for astrophysics

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today we'll Explore her early

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involvement in this field and her work

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at the Galileo project I hope you enjoy

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this episode of the merge podcast

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now Abby away

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all right Abby thank you for joining me

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today sorry thanks for having me so I

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understand you are a fellow at the

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Galileo project is that correct yes that

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is correct awesome well before we get

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into that maybe you could tell us a

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little bit about

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um your background uh your educational

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background and where you grew up and

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kind of what took you up to being part

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of that project that effort sure

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absolutely so

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um I grew up in a small town in

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Pennsylvania called Wyomissing if you're

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a Taylor Swift fan you you would

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recognize that that that's where Taylor

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Swift is from before she moved to

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Nashville uh so I spent you know most of

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my life there for college I wanted to

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experiment go to a new city do something

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fun so I went up to Wealthy College

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which is 12 miles west of Boston and

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that's where I completed my

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undergraduate education so I was there

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for four years

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um my my decisions about you know

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pursuing different academic areas

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changed a lot while I was there not too

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much but um so I arrived and I knew I

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wanted to study math I always loved math

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but you know the math major was pretty

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short and I you know was ambitious I

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wanted to try something else as well uh

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Wellesley is a historical women's

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college and a liberal arts institution

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so what that means is you basically are

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encouraged or actually you have to uh

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take a bunch of different classes for

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distribution requirements so that you

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know your learning is is really rounded

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out and well-rounded

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so I uh as for that reason I had to take

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a science class and in high school I

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don't know science just didn't do it for

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me I actually hated physics I wanted

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nothing to do with it

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um and I love math I know but I loved

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math so I was like oh give me equations

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that's fine but I just I don't know I

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wasn't into it and I didn't have any

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good reason why I just didn't didn't

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feel like it so

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then I was kind of dreading the science

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requirement at Wellesley and I was

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looking around the course browser and I

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saw there was astronomy and I just

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thought oh my gosh this is so cool when

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will I ever have the chance to uh you

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know look through a telescope we have a

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couple of different domes with different

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telescopes so I thought you know this

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would just be an amazing way to see a

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new part of campus and you know do

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something that's science but maybe not

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purely some other areas where I just

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didn't wasn't drawn to in high school

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not ready to commit your life to it

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quite at that point yeah exactly so I

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just take a class you know thinking

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nothing of it signing up for it I went

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through the entire class had a great

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time but you know again like didn't

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think much of it uh until about a year

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later I I was really into math and

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computer science but then I started

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thinking about career paths you know

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after college and I was like I don't

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really want to be a software engineer

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like I want to sit at my computer all

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day and just write code but I also you

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know don't want to be stuck in a room by

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myself writing proofs not that that's

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what mathematicians do but in my mind I

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was like okay I like these two things

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but I just don't there's no career that

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is combining these two you know areas

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that it's in a way that I think is

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really cool and I'm really excited about

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so then I thought back to this astronomy

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class and I was like okay well I did a

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lot of math in that class and I know

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astronomers code so maybe I should you

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know take another class so I had this

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thought I signed up for a physics class

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you know which I was nervous for but I

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ended up just loving it I think taking

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that class in the historical women's

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college environment was what made it so

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different so you know prior to that in

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high school I was one of the only girls

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in my you know math and science courses

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and I went to public high school so you

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know there was you know not tons tons of

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resources to you know engage

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specifically like girls in stem so I

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don't know I think just being in that

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atmosphere you know I was so encouraged

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to make mistakes and not be afraid to

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like raise my hand and ask questions I

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could do the homework without being

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ridiculed for being like a nerd so I

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just I loved it for that reason and then

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do you feel like if I may interrupt yeah

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I feel like when you're we're at you

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know the educational facility you said

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that was the high school uh you're at it

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was mostly uh mostly boys in that type

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of stem education it would that lead you

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to being more uncomfortable the kind of

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raising your hand and asking those

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questions because of that Dynamic just

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because you're afraid to fail or just

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didn't want to I don't know yeah so I

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guess I have like specific memories of

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being like my AP calculus course and the

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most of the girls like sat at the front

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of the classroom and then there's like

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almost a peanut gallery of guys that

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would sit in the back of the classroom

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and I'd specifically remember like I

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would do the homework assignments

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because well for AP courses you're

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paying to take the exam to get college

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credits I was like well if I'm paying to

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be here you know I want to make the most

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out of it so I would do the homework as

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one does and I would ask questions about

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the homework every that's how class

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started the the teacher would always

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open with you know does anyone have any

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questions about the homework and I

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always did so every time I raised my

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hand there someone would make a comment

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or something from the back of the

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classroom and kind of just say like we

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get it you did the homework or like

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whatever like let's move on to class and

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I think that just really you know maybe

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subconsciously kind of contributed to me

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you know I'd sit in class and think okay

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I've asked this many questions today I

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don't want to ask any more so you know

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I've reached my quota which is just

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that's so unfortunate because you know

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everyone should be encouraged to learn

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and ask questions if they don't

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understand something uh so that makes

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sense at least when you were at

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Wellesley you seem to be surrounded by

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people that were you know interest also

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engaged in what they were learning on on

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the science side or because it was a

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little arts college did was it more kind

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of a spectator sport there the science

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yeah yeah I think it depended on which

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courses you were in you know so when

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you're taking these introductory courses

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there'd be people who are you know

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pre-med uh or or who were Humanities

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majors and you know had no intention of

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pursuing it after but I think that made

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for a really Dynamic classroom because

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everyone has something different to

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offer and different skill sets so having

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all those different opinions and and

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viewpoints in one room I think just made

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it like an amazing experience so and so

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you seem to kind of enjoy that

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experience and yes you you stuck with

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yeah yeah so I guess I never finished a

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story but um so I was in this physics

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class and I was actually in this class

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when I got the email everyone that was

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in college during uh March 2020 knows

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what I'm referring to the email that

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were being sent home uh and are not

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returning for yafkovitz not returning

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for the spring semester so everyone is

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shocked we stopped class we're like okay

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if you want to leave go ahead like if

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you need to process this in your own way

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so code happens you know I head back

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home my family had moved to Savannah

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Georgia at this point and that's where

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we are now

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um so I went back to Georgia and I just

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did a lot of like inward reflection

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um and just thinking about again like

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post-grad what I want to do uh you know

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I don't come from a family of scientists

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so I didn't really know what was out

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there in terms of like science

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opportunities or what even like PHD

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programs or graduate school looked like

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I really had no exposure to that but

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anyway on a whim I signed up to take

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observational astronomy and this gave me

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the opportunity D2 from my bedroom in

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Georgia control a telescope 0.7 meter

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telescope up at Wellesley and that just

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like blew my mind so I think probably

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within days after you know Imaging some

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star clusters I declared a second major

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and just said you know it's my junior

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fall I got two years uh let's just you

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know pedal to the metal let's get this

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done so at that point it just became a

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race to finish as many you know

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requirements as it could and just do do

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as much research as I possibly could

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because I wasn't the girl who was you

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know looking up at the stars when I was

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really young and thinking oh I wonder

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what's out there and I just wasn't a

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space kid and I didn't watch Star Wars

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or Star Trek or any of that I just kind

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of fell into it very accidentally uh but

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yeah that's that's how I ended up at

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Astro but I guess then comes the Galileo

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project which I think is a fun story so

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that was my senior spring

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and uh you know so last semester near in

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the end

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it's insight and I have a professor who

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I'm very close with and or close he was

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an academic very important academic

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Mentor for me um and he approached me

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and he said I have an opportunity to do

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an independent study which basically

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just meant you know I get to control the

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terms of the project and I can do it at

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my own pace and then you know produce

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some kind of written report at the end

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summarizing everything I've learned and

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he approaches me and he says oh would

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you like to do an independent study on

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exotic solar system ices

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and I'm thinking

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I where did this come from I have you

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know I took planetary science with him

272
00:09:08,269 --> 00:09:06,540
but I didn't have too much experience

273
00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:08,279
with chemistry or anything but I was

274
00:09:11,810 --> 00:09:10,560
like okay I you know I really look up to

275
00:09:14,990 --> 00:09:11,820
him and I would love to work with him

276
00:09:17,329 --> 00:09:15,000
you know on a independent study and you

277
00:09:18,769 --> 00:09:17,339
know really improve my ability to do

278
00:09:20,389 --> 00:09:18,779
science by myself and not just you know

279
00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:20,399
doing problem sets and taking was this

280
00:09:24,530 --> 00:09:22,560
in line with what you were doing

281
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:24,540
in the under course as the observational

282
00:09:27,889 --> 00:09:26,160
astronomy was it related to that or was

283
00:09:29,449 --> 00:09:27,899
it a different subset I think it was a

284
00:09:31,310 --> 00:09:29,459
different subset so it definitely leaned

285
00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:31,320
more like planetary signs so I was

286
00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:33,360
looking more at uh something called

287
00:09:39,650 --> 00:09:36,600
spectroscopy of Isis so looking at what

288
00:09:41,389 --> 00:09:39,660
they look like in in that area uh of

289
00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:41,399
science so it wasn't I wasn't looking at

290
00:09:46,490 --> 00:09:43,440
like stars and galaxies and whatnot it

291
00:09:48,470 --> 00:09:46,500
was more at like uh election range yeah

292
00:09:50,210 --> 00:09:48,480
so I guess it was um like comets and

293
00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:50,220
asteroids is really kind of where it

294
00:09:54,110 --> 00:09:52,140
falls so

295
00:09:56,990 --> 00:09:54,120
I started to do this independent study

296
00:09:59,210 --> 00:09:57,000
and my professor is like okay and

297
00:10:02,150 --> 00:09:59,220
actually in a different class with this

298
00:10:05,090 --> 00:10:02,160
professor uh he starts talking about the

299
00:10:08,810 --> 00:10:05,100
Galileo project and uh how it was kind

300
00:10:11,930 --> 00:10:08,820
of sparked by this uh object that was

301
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:11,940
observed in 2017 called I'm not sure

302
00:10:17,449 --> 00:10:14,640
have you heard of it yeah so subject

303
00:10:18,530 --> 00:10:17,459
that that flew by Interstellar object

304
00:10:20,030 --> 00:10:18,540
um that they didn't really know what it

305
00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:20,040
was they you know there's different

306
00:10:24,110 --> 00:10:21,720
hypotheses out there you know nitrogen

307
00:10:26,030 --> 00:10:24,120
Iceberg hydrogen Iceberg and then

308
00:10:29,210 --> 00:10:26,040
there's this other hypothesis which is

309
00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:29,220
was presented by Dr abilo at Harvard and

310
00:10:35,090 --> 00:10:32,100
he claimed that maybe this object could

311
00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:35,100
be a remnant of you know an

312
00:10:39,410 --> 00:10:37,080
extraterrestrial civilization like

313
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:39,420
basically space junk that for this from

314
00:10:43,490 --> 00:10:42,000
another uh system that flew by our solar

315
00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:43,500
system and we observed it just because

316
00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:44,760
there are a couple properties that were

317
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:46,320
just like weird about it what properties

318
00:10:49,069 --> 00:10:48,480
yeah I think

319
00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:49,079
um

320
00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:51,060
there were there was non-gravitational

321
00:10:56,269 --> 00:10:53,880
acceleration when Iran around the Sun so

322
00:10:58,730 --> 00:10:56,279
no like it basically had a kick I

323
00:11:00,230 --> 00:10:58,740
believe and it's in its speed uh but so

324
00:11:02,030 --> 00:11:00,240
as it was going around the Sun and near

325
00:11:03,650 --> 00:11:02,040
the sun you would expect it to celebrate

326
00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:03,660
due to the gravity but it was

327
00:11:07,009 --> 00:11:05,160
accelerating but it was accelerating

328
00:11:08,509 --> 00:11:07,019
faster than what you would expect yeah

329
00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:08,519
exactly so it kind of it was almost like

330
00:11:12,829 --> 00:11:10,500
a kick like I think to my understanding

331
00:11:15,710 --> 00:11:12,839
from what I recall of that

332
00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:15,720
um and it it had no tail commentary tale

333
00:11:19,310 --> 00:11:16,920
so when you see a comment usually it's

334
00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:19,320
tail that's coming from uh as it gets

335
00:11:22,910 --> 00:11:20,940
closer to the sun it's you know heating

336
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:22,920
up and the ice starts to turn into gas

337
00:11:27,170 --> 00:11:25,200
they're a process called sublimation uh

338
00:11:28,430 --> 00:11:27,180
and you know there's no tail so I was

339
00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:28,440
like okay well we can't call this thing

340
00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:29,660
a comet because it doesn't have a tail

341
00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:32,220
but it experiences kind of you know

342
00:11:35,690 --> 00:11:34,140
non-gravitational acceleration so what

343
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:35,700
could this thing be

344
00:11:39,769 --> 00:11:37,920
um and I think you know Avi got a lot of

345
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:39,779
criticism for that hypothesis but it's

346
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:42,000
like we didn't have enough data to say

347
00:11:45,410 --> 00:11:43,680
if it was true or not

348
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:45,420
um but anyway so

349
00:11:48,829 --> 00:11:47,279
then that's basically what my research

350
00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:48,839
was without me knowing it was related to

351
00:11:52,610 --> 00:11:50,760
the Galileo project and and one of their

352
00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:52,620
other branches which is you know looking

353
00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:54,360
at Interstellar objects and their

354
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:56,700
Origins okay so that's that's how I fell

355
00:12:01,790 --> 00:12:00,240
into it so long story so yeah so you're

356
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:01,800
you're professor at Wellesley brought

357
00:12:06,110 --> 00:12:04,320
you into a project studying uh ice

358
00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:06,120
fragments within the solar system which

359
00:12:11,389 --> 00:12:08,820
typically gets classified as comets or

360
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:11,399
yeah yeah

361
00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:13,560
um and in this particular case there was

362
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:15,720
an interesting Commodore asteroid or

363
00:12:20,569 --> 00:12:18,240
something else that everyone assumed was

364
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,579
a a comet but it didn't have the

365
00:12:26,569 --> 00:12:22,079
characteristic

366
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,579
of one and perform some interesting

367
00:12:31,009 --> 00:12:27,839
things so yeah that was your

368
00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:31,019
introduction to a very cool yeah so how

369
00:12:34,009 --> 00:12:32,579
so that was your introduction to what it

370
00:12:36,350 --> 00:12:34,019
was yes

371
00:12:37,550 --> 00:12:36,360
um what what did you think when you when

372
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,560
you heard that was this something you're

373
00:12:41,569 --> 00:12:39,600
like okay yeah it makes sense or was it

374
00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:41,579
did you have to step back and kind of

375
00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:44,100
reevaluate what you were what you were

376
00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:47,100
being offered in a sense to study yeah I

377
00:12:53,389 --> 00:12:50,040
mean I think I basically signed up to do

378
00:12:55,069 --> 00:12:53,399
the independent study uh so early that

379
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:55,079
when I actually found out what it was

380
00:12:58,370 --> 00:12:56,639
about it was it was pretty much too late

381
00:13:00,290 --> 00:12:58,380
for me this didn't make any other

382
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,300
decision but I was fine with that you

383
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:02,160
know I was like this is my senior spring

384
00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:04,260
like I'm not gonna get these chances to

385
00:13:09,230 --> 00:13:06,899
engage in this kind of research again uh

386
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:09,240
and even so the research is is valuable

387
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,760
for many other applications uh so

388
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:13,440
basically what I was doing and actually

389
00:13:17,629 --> 00:13:15,360
there's a paper from the gallery project

390
00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:17,639
that's coming out this spring I don't

391
00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:19,560
know exactly when about this but it was

392
00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:21,480
accepted so that's exciting I'm one of

393
00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:23,700
the co-authors on Instagram uh thank you

394
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:25,260
but it's about you know physical

395
00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:27,480
considerations that we would take if we

396
00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:29,880
would want to Rendezvous with a

397
00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:31,380
Interstellar object if it was coming by

398
00:13:37,009 --> 00:13:33,660
so the first question is well how do you

399
00:13:38,449 --> 00:13:37,019
determine that something's weird so uh

400
00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:38,459
you know if we could look at something

401
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:40,260
using spectroscopy and say oh well this

402
00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:42,779
is made of water and carbon and you know

403
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:44,459
hydrogen okay well that's probably not

404
00:13:48,590 --> 00:13:46,740
super interesting to us we've seen

405
00:13:50,509 --> 00:13:48,600
things like this it's probably just you

406
00:13:51,769 --> 00:13:50,519
know a comet so that in that case we

407
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,779
wouldn't want to Rendezvous but in the

408
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,279
case of the muamua what would have been

409
00:13:57,250 --> 00:13:55,440
awesome is if we had something saying

410
00:14:01,550 --> 00:13:57,260
hey this thing is weird for XYZ reason

411
00:14:03,290 --> 00:14:01,560
let's go out to it and investigate it so

412
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,300
we'd send something out there to fly by

413
00:14:07,329 --> 00:14:05,279
with it rendezvous maybe get some

414
00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:07,339
close-up imagery or take some other

415
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:09,480
measurements of the object and then we

416
00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:10,800
could better understand what the thing

417
00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:12,420
was because that's the thing about we

418
00:14:15,170 --> 00:14:13,740
just didn't have enough information to

419
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:15,180
you know say what it was or we didn't

420
00:14:18,769 --> 00:14:17,100
have you know modeling that would allow

421
00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:18,779
I'll still come to a definite conclusion

422
00:14:21,949 --> 00:14:20,220
so it kind of just remains this like

423
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:21,959
open question and it flew away from us

424
00:14:26,269 --> 00:14:23,880
so we're not ever going to catch up to

425
00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:26,279
it again why is it so difficult to to

426
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:28,920
either find or do rendezvous with these

427
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:30,540
I mean they're flying it just like

428
00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:34,980
really insanely high speeds so I think

429
00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:37,620
I don't know the exact speeds

430
00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:39,720
part of me thinks maybe 10 kilometers a

431
00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:40,680
second

432
00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:42,360
but so it's kind of like a bullet coming

433
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:43,820
into the solar system

434
00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:46,320
so fast okay so it's on like a totally

435
00:14:49,310 --> 00:14:47,880
different scale of the planet things of

436
00:14:51,650 --> 00:14:49,320
that name right it's not in this nice

437
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:51,660
orbit the stable orbit around the sun

438
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:53,279
like everything's moving it's coming in

439
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:55,199
and you know maybe it flies by Jupiter

440
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:56,880
and it might you know Jupiter has a

441
00:15:00,650 --> 00:14:58,800
large mass so it's going to change uh

442
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,660
it's gonna influence it with gravity and

443
00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:01,920
it might change trajectories and

444
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:04,079
everything so it's really hard to I mean

445
00:15:07,069 --> 00:15:05,940
we have good models for how when things

446
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:07,079
are coming in where to predict that

447
00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:09,420
they're going to end up but um you know

448
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:11,820
in terms of like it's it's hard to to

449
00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:13,680
pinpoint where something's going in have

450
00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:15,000
you know something out in space that's

451
00:15:19,310 --> 00:15:16,920
going to fly to it uh just because it's

452
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:19,320
moving so fast and it just costs a lot

453
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:20,639
of money is that but we've done that

454
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:22,260
with other comments correct yeah or

455
00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:24,600
there is I think recently uh something

456
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:27,300
demonstrated it was it was for more uh

457
00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:28,860
National I guess you would call it

458
00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:30,540
National Security I don't know what what

459
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:32,820
the official term would be uh but a

460
00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:36,000
group kind of flew out a a probe or

461
00:15:39,769 --> 00:15:37,500
something of nature to smash into an

462
00:15:41,629 --> 00:15:39,779
asteroid to change its direction of

463
00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:41,639
course so we want to bash into the thing

464
00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:43,800
unless it's coming at us then we

465
00:15:46,610 --> 00:15:45,060
definitely want to do that but this

466
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,620
would more just be like a flyby let's

467
00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:48,720
get some imagery or maybe close-up

468
00:15:51,889 --> 00:15:50,279
spectroscopy or other things of that

469
00:15:53,389 --> 00:15:51,899
nature about this object just so we can

470
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:53,399
say more because we just don't have

471
00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:55,680
enough data and they're moving so fast

472
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:57,720
we would either need to have things out

473
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,279
there ready to intercept or we'd have to

474
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:01,920
detect it edit early enough position to

475
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:04,560
send something out exactly so it's kind

476
00:16:08,269 --> 00:16:06,000
of like that

477
00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:08,279
it's a give and take so you want to have

478
00:16:12,590 --> 00:16:11,100
maybe some facilities on Earth that are

479
00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:12,600
you know looking uh like the very

480
00:16:15,949 --> 00:16:13,980
Suburban Observatory that are like

481
00:16:17,389 --> 00:16:15,959
looking for these objects in the sky and

482
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:17,399
maybe once you see one and observe one

483
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,440
you're like okay well we maybe have this

484
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:21,600
uh some kind of probe or something out

485
00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:24,600
in space in a stable orbit uh waiting

486
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:26,760
for a green light and it's like okay I'm

487
00:16:31,009 --> 00:16:28,860
waiting for this on on Earth Observatory

488
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:31,019
to signal that this thing is weird once

489
00:16:35,569 --> 00:16:33,839
that happens we say okay go ahead fly so

490
00:16:38,449 --> 00:16:35,579
it's you know it's really hard to

491
00:16:40,670 --> 00:16:38,459
determine that you know certain things

492
00:16:42,290 --> 00:16:40,680
about an object when it's so far away so

493
00:16:43,550 --> 00:16:42,300
that's why we lean to spectroscopy

494
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:43,560
because it is one of those things that

495
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:45,360
we can see and that basically that

496
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:47,040
distance yeah exactly it's something you

497
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:48,480
can measure with distance and it just

498
00:16:53,689 --> 00:16:51,540
gives you signatures of of you know

499
00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:53,699
different wavelengths and you can see

500
00:16:57,889 --> 00:16:55,380
absorption and emission lines and then

501
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:57,899
determine based on our research and Labs

502
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,480
those are consistent usually uh whether

503
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,920
you observe the monitor throughout space

504
00:17:05,929 --> 00:17:04,319
so you can see okay this say we know if

505
00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:05,939
there's a dip here this means that the

506
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,699
this is the composition so I think

507
00:17:12,289 --> 00:17:10,079
they're starting to do that now with

508
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,299
jwst and exoplanet atmospheres James

509
00:17:17,929 --> 00:17:15,360
South James Webb Space Telescope yes so

510
00:17:19,789 --> 00:17:17,939
very good yeah that's fascinating uh

511
00:17:21,949 --> 00:17:19,799
what are we using to detect these

512
00:17:23,689 --> 00:17:21,959
smaller objects before they get in the

513
00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:23,699
solar system if we can do we have that

514
00:17:26,689 --> 00:17:25,380
capability yet or do we have to wait for

515
00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:26,699
them to get closer and then we find them

516
00:17:30,530 --> 00:17:28,380
and we can figure out that came from

517
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:30,540
external to our solar system after the

518
00:17:33,169 --> 00:17:31,860
fact

519
00:17:37,010 --> 00:17:33,179
I actually don't know too much about

520
00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:37,020
that myself but I know like for instance

521
00:17:42,830 --> 00:17:39,480
in other aspect of the Galileo project

522
00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:42,840
another Branch along still still working

523
00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:44,700
towards that Interstellar object Origins

524
00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:47,460
kind of research goal is they have an

525
00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:49,080
expedition going out to Papua New Guinea

526
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:50,940
that's looking to retrieve fragments of

527
00:17:55,370 --> 00:17:54,240
an Interstellar object so uh that for

528
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:55,380
instance they were able to track that

529
00:17:58,370 --> 00:17:56,760
trajectory and then based on its

530
00:18:00,049 --> 00:17:58,380
trajectory determine okay this did not

531
00:18:01,669 --> 00:18:00,059
come from our solar system so I think

532
00:18:04,190 --> 00:18:01,679
that's just like theoretical physics you

533
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:04,200
know calculating trajectories but at

534
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:05,340
that point I think you have to wait till

535
00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:06,780
it's close enough that we can you know

536
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,520
resolve it and see it in the sky with

537
00:18:12,529 --> 00:18:10,080
our telescopes and I mean telescopes are

538
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,539
getting better every year so as we get

539
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:14,160
more and more telescopes or even things

540
00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:15,720
out into space you don't have to fight

541
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:17,940
the atmosphere when you're observing you

542
00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:20,460
know you're not inhibited by a cloudy

543
00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:23,400
night per se so you know as as you know

544
00:18:26,510 --> 00:18:25,080
even more as like private space

545
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:26,520
companies come into the sphere I don't

546
00:18:31,070 --> 00:18:28,140
know how open they are with their data

547
00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:31,080
but uh you know as we get more or this

548
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:32,820
as these Technologies develop and as we

549
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:34,740
just get simply more of them there will

550
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,200
be more eyes on the sky so well one of

551
00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:39,600
the things I understand that for the for

552
00:18:46,730 --> 00:18:43,140
the object that is in the ocean that the

553
00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:46,740
Galileo project or Dr Ivy Lowe was

554
00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:49,620
talking about going and investigating

555
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:50,220
um

556
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:52,799
they had uh they had a supposition about

557
00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:54,960
that particular object and they were

558
00:19:00,650 --> 00:18:58,260
waiting for additional data from uh

559
00:19:03,049 --> 00:19:00,660
classified systems that confirm uh

560
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,059
whether or not the trajectory was truly

561
00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:06,000
extrasolar right that's my understanding

562
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:08,220
can you speak to that at all yeah I wish

563
00:19:11,870 --> 00:19:09,600
I could speak more to it I'm actually

564
00:19:13,490 --> 00:19:11,880
that's the one branch that I haven't

565
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,500
really you know been involved with too

566
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:15,840
much but I know I think they were able

567
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:18,240
to there's some calculation that they

568
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:19,260
were doing where they were just trying

569
00:19:22,669 --> 00:19:21,660
to pinpoint like where exactly it was

570
00:19:24,590 --> 00:19:22,679
um and I think they were waiting on

571
00:19:25,789 --> 00:19:24,600
information there uh because the

572
00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:25,799
government had tracked it because you

573
00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:27,240
know if something's flying into the

574
00:19:31,549 --> 00:19:30,360
Earth you the government's on it uh so

575
00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:31,559
since it was the ocean you know it

576
00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:33,660
wasn't a threat or anything but uh they

577
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,400
were trying to you know pinpoint that

578
00:19:39,529 --> 00:19:37,440
location and I think they're waiting for

579
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:39,539
more data for that front but I think

580
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:41,039
they were able to make progress with

581
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:42,360
their calculations or something to

582
00:19:46,010 --> 00:19:44,100
improve the resolution but that's that's

583
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:46,020
as far as I know yeah I think I remember

584
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:48,299
them being a little bit frustrated I

585
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,460
guess with the fact that they were

586
00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:52,320
trying to do this for Science and you

587
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,700
know the government wasn't necessarily

588
00:19:57,950 --> 00:19:55,440
cooperating but they have their reasons

589
00:19:59,930 --> 00:19:57,960
and and we have ours so yeah you know

590
00:20:02,570 --> 00:19:59,940
it's uh it's a trend that I've seen and

591
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,580
it's not necessarily a negative thing

592
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,320
um we put a lot of money and effort into

593
00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:06,480
developing weapons and systems and

594
00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:09,960
sensors within the government and those

595
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,900
things typically we like to hide how

596
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:14,400
well they work obviously from our

597
00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:17,039
adversaries exactly yeah

598
00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:19,380
and so you know this is uh it doesn't

599
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:20,700
necessarily mean the information that is

600
00:20:24,350 --> 00:20:22,980
captured is classified but just the fact

601
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:24,360
that you could detect something at a

602
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:26,460
particular range or know the size or the

603
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:27,900
resolution

604
00:20:32,029 --> 00:20:29,820
um and that's what we see a lot in um

605
00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:32,039
the unidentified anomalous phenomenon

606
00:20:35,090 --> 00:20:33,539
area

607
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:35,100
um when I was flying we were seeing

608
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:37,080
objects on the radar the objects

609
00:20:40,909 --> 00:20:38,460
themselves weren't necessarily

610
00:20:43,789 --> 00:20:40,919
classified uh at least no one told me

611
00:20:45,529 --> 00:20:43,799
that but the systems we are capturing it

612
00:20:48,169 --> 00:20:45,539
on such as The Radars and everything

613
00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:48,179
else were classified

614
00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:51,000
um in the Galileo project now you know I

615
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,500
believe one of their tag lines is the

616
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,440
the sky is not classified yeah but maybe

617
00:20:58,970 --> 00:20:57,120
you can talk about what their goals are

618
00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:58,980
now and how they're trying to

619
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:00,900
essentially gather data outside the

620
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,440
realm of of government oversight sure so

621
00:21:10,909 --> 00:21:06,720
at a high level I would say the goal of

622
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:10,919
the Galileo project is to bring the

623
00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:13,919
search for signatures of

624
00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:16,440
extraterrestrial civilizations to a

625
00:21:21,710 --> 00:21:18,600
standard where there is rigorous

626
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:21,720
scientific investigation and there are

627
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:23,820
you know credible instruments and people

628
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:25,260
Behind These discoveries basically

629
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,760
bringing science to the conversation

630
00:21:33,169 --> 00:21:28,799
because I think that's something that's

631
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:33,179
been perhaps missing uh

632
00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:36,120
in in recent history so I mean why do

633
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:37,740
you think that is

634
00:21:44,570 --> 00:21:41,039
I wish I knew it's it's hard for me to

635
00:21:46,730 --> 00:21:44,580
imagine that because I think you know

636
00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:46,740
most people I talk to even friends

637
00:21:50,690 --> 00:21:49,260
colleagues family uh are so interested

638
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:50,700
in the subject and they're like yeah

639
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:52,020
totally like we should look at something

640
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:53,760
we don't understand it

641
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:57,600
um and I think the only thing that that

642
00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:00,720
I can justify this with is just that it

643
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:02,280
it makes people an authority

644
00:22:06,529 --> 00:22:03,600
uncomfortable

645
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:06,539
so I guess what I mean by that is and I

646
00:22:09,289 --> 00:22:08,280
guess we've seen this kind of in

647
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:09,299
different cases in a little bit

648
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,340
different ways so

649
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,919
with astronomy there is like dark matter

650
00:22:18,590 --> 00:22:16,320
and dark energy this has you know been

651
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,600
shown to make up a vast majority of our

652
00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:20,640
universe but scientists really don't

653
00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:21,960
know what's going on with it that's why

654
00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:23,220
we call it dark matter and dark energy

655
00:22:27,470 --> 00:22:24,600
because we're like oh it's dark we don't

656
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:27,480
know what it is uh so there's a whole

657
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:28,860
study about like trying to figure out

658
00:22:36,409 --> 00:22:33,120
what exactly that is and for some reason

659
00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:36,419
that is fine to do you know when we

660
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:37,860
don't understand something okay let's

661
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,299
look into it but when it comes to UAP

662
00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:42,000
that same logic isn't applied and I

663
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:44,100
think this kind of has to play into what

664
00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:46,860
I might foresee as a paradigm shift

665
00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:48,600
occurring in the future if we would make

666
00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:51,240
more progress so what I mean by that

667
00:22:57,049 --> 00:22:53,820
um a paradigm is basically a belief

668
00:22:58,730 --> 00:22:57,059
system or theory that provides like a

669
00:23:02,270 --> 00:22:58,740
unifying explanation for a set of

670
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:02,280
phenomena or you know in some Fields so

671
00:23:07,610 --> 00:23:04,020
a set of phenomena in some field

672
00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:07,620
and it usually also suggests methods for

673
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,860
which ideas are tested or knowledge is

674
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:12,240
advanced

675
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:15,720
so uh paradigms you know are upheld in

676
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,760
numerous ways one being the power of

677
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:19,919
authority right so if the authority

678
00:23:24,169 --> 00:23:21,960
figures are kind of

679
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:24,179
speaking this Paradigm and and you know

680
00:23:28,010 --> 00:23:26,400
people are buying into it that you know

681
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:28,020
people aren't going to go get sorority

682
00:23:33,710 --> 00:23:31,260
for many for many and various reasons so

683
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:33,720
that keeps paradigms in place we also

684
00:23:37,789 --> 00:23:35,100
have the Human Experience we're

685
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:37,799
imperfect so you're going to have uh you

686
00:23:42,049 --> 00:23:40,080
know people are irrational sometimes we

687
00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:42,059
are emotionally attached to certain

688
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:45,299
ideas we also have you know denialism

689
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:47,580
when it comes with coping with cognitive

690
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:50,700
dissonance uh and then we also you know

691
00:23:54,830 --> 00:23:53,520
have this taboo stigma and ridicule that

692
00:23:57,049 --> 00:23:54,840
comes with ideas that are outside of

693
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:57,059
these paradigms so I think two examples

694
00:24:01,010 --> 00:23:59,460
that you know we've seen in what I might

695
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:01,020
say is recent history are like

696
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:03,000
heliocentrism and germ Theory

697
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:06,000
so heliocentrism is the idea that the

698
00:24:09,289 --> 00:24:07,919
sun is at the center of the universe or

699
00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:09,299
sorry not the universe the solar system

700
00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:12,120
sun is at the center of the solar system

701
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:15,480
and this was not agreed upon for you

702
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:17,100
know a long time they thought you know

703
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:18,780
the Earth was the center of everything

704
00:24:23,149 --> 00:24:21,720
and everything was rotated around us uh

705
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:23,159
but actually this is where the Galileo

706
00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:26,039
project got our name from uh Galileo

707
00:24:30,169 --> 00:24:28,380
used his telescope to make observations

708
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:30,179
to find direct evidence that was

709
00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:32,760
disproving us this idea that the Earth

710
00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:33,960
was at the center of the Solar System's

711
00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:36,120
Paradigm yeah exactly so

712
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:37,500
people refuse to look through his

713
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:38,640
telescope because they were either

714
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:40,140
freaked out authority figures were like

715
00:24:42,890 --> 00:24:41,100
well we don't want to deal with the

716
00:24:44,690 --> 00:24:42,900
aftermath you know of a paradigm shift

717
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:44,700
because you know people who knows what

718
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,840
that's going to do it's disruptive

719
00:24:50,270 --> 00:24:48,080
status quo yes exactly

720
00:24:51,770 --> 00:24:50,280
so people refuse to look through his

721
00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:51,780
telescope and then eventually you know

722
00:24:54,649 --> 00:24:53,640
more and more people just came out with

723
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:54,659
this and they're like guys this just

724
00:24:57,950 --> 00:24:56,460
doesn't make sense uh so they're like

725
00:25:00,110 --> 00:24:57,960
okay we're gonna throw that whole

726
00:25:01,970 --> 00:25:00,120
earth-centric Theory out and now we've

727
00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:01,980
adopted to heliocentrism and now you

728
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:03,780
know people in our age oh yeah Sun

729
00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:05,400
Center the solar system we'd never doubt

730
00:25:09,649 --> 00:25:07,080
it and that just had to come along with

731
00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:09,659
time uh and then germ Theory which I

732
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,220
don't know too much about I'm not in the

733
00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:13,200
medical field but I think it's the idea

734
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,580
that um

735
00:25:18,890 --> 00:25:16,799
certain diseases are caused by like

736
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:18,900
microorganisms invading the body so that

737
00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:20,100
was something that wasn't you know

738
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,260
necessarily agreed upon in that it was

739
00:25:25,490 --> 00:25:24,000
controversial yeah so it's like you

740
00:25:26,450 --> 00:25:25,500
don't get Scarlet Letter stamped with a

741
00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:26,460
disease it's like oh they're actually

742
00:25:29,930 --> 00:25:27,960
things that can like just make you sick

743
00:25:31,730 --> 00:25:29,940
and then you can pass it to one another

744
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,740
and in that way so it's funny to think

745
00:25:36,529 --> 00:25:33,360
about those things I'm like oh that's so

746
00:25:37,789 --> 00:25:36,539
insane uh so I think you know dare I say

747
00:25:39,289 --> 00:25:37,799
we may be on the verge of something

748
00:25:41,570 --> 00:25:39,299
whether it comes to you know Dark Matter

749
00:25:42,769 --> 00:25:41,580
Dark Energy quantum mechanics all that

750
00:25:44,269 --> 00:25:42,779
there might be a paradigm shift and

751
00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:44,279
that's going to happen with that but

752
00:25:48,890 --> 00:25:46,260
even uip I think I think to answer your

753
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,900
question that is why it hasn't received

754
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:50,880
the scientific attention is because it's

755
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:53,220
it's scary people are scared but it is

756
00:25:59,330 --> 00:25:56,220
yeah and I think it also

757
00:26:02,570 --> 00:25:59,340
um even perhaps more so than

758
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,580
um heliocentricity uh directly attacks

759
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:05,520
our kind of high status as

760
00:26:09,529 --> 00:26:08,159
um you know our our only inhabitants of

761
00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:09,539
this universe in a sense right it

762
00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:12,600
directly challenges our our place there

763
00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:15,960
um our eccentricity wait that's the

764
00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:21,049
um heliocentrism

765
00:26:25,789 --> 00:26:23,100
redefines our place universe but yeah

766
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:25,799
this really defines our you know our

767
00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:28,380
position of ourselves within the

768
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,020
universe exactly oh yeah

769
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:33,360
and yeah that can be scary that can be

770
00:26:37,850 --> 00:26:35,760
scary do you think science

771
00:26:39,289 --> 00:26:37,860
do you think science can overcome that

772
00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:39,299
just with that or do you think there's

773
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:42,840
going to be other you know sociological

774
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:44,279
um

775
00:26:48,110 --> 00:26:45,600
I don't know what the right word is

776
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:48,120
tools or you know things that we need to

777
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,220
do to move people past this barrier or

778
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:51,840
is this truly do you think just about

779
00:26:56,450 --> 00:26:54,480
data and communication

780
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:56,460
yeah I mean

781
00:27:01,850 --> 00:26:59,039
I don't think that you can kind of have

782
00:27:03,649 --> 00:27:01,860
one of those things without the other so

783
00:27:07,370 --> 00:27:03,659
your sign says nothing if you can't

784
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:07,380
communicate it so and that goes for all

785
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:08,400
Sciences you think that's gonna be

786
00:27:12,350 --> 00:27:10,260
enough though for some people to see

787
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:12,360
yeah no I don't I don't think so I I

788
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:13,320
really don't think so which is

789
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,880
unfortunate I mean we as a scientist I'm

790
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:16,080
like yeah show me the data like that's

791
00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:18,000
good for me but I know not everyone's

792
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:18,900
like that

793
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:20,880
um some people I think if you don't have

794
00:27:25,370 --> 00:27:23,279
a site a citing story you know you might

795
00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:25,380
not be within the the UAP Community

796
00:27:27,649 --> 00:27:26,460
might be like oh well you don't really

797
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:27,659
you haven't seen it you're not really

798
00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:29,820
one of us I haven't experienced that but

799
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:31,380
I can imagine that that might be the

800
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:32,880
kind of mentality that some people have

801
00:27:36,529 --> 00:27:34,320
with it

802
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,539
um again I haven't experienced that so I

803
00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:38,640
can't say for sure but I do think you

804
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:40,260
know that's why the Galileo project we

805
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,480
have a societal implications group and

806
00:27:45,649 --> 00:27:44,159
you know those are philosophers social

807
00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:45,659
scientists who are just really thinking

808
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:48,120
about you know once we publish papers

809
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,980
and are getting data how is that how are

810
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:51,360
we going to communicate that and how is

811
00:27:55,370 --> 00:27:53,100
that going to impact you know society as

812
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:55,380
a whole oh that sounds fascinating when

813
00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:56,940
you guys have papers coming out in that

814
00:28:01,010 --> 00:27:58,140
direction

815
00:28:03,769 --> 00:28:01,020
um I'm not sure actually I think uh we

816
00:28:05,570 --> 00:28:03,779
have one two papers that are kind of you

817
00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:05,580
know higher level and I'm hoping they

818
00:28:09,230 --> 00:28:07,500
well I I've read them I think they're

819
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:09,240
you know people can engage with them you

820
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:10,440
don't have to have necessarily like a

821
00:28:13,370 --> 00:28:12,419
rigorous scientific background but one

822
00:28:14,990 --> 00:28:13,380
of them is about you know just an

823
00:28:16,669 --> 00:28:15,000
overview of the project and then that

824
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,679
one's written by Dr abilo and then

825
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:18,240
there's another paper written by Dr Wes

826
00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:20,100
Waters at Wellesley College that is just

827
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:21,960
giving kind of the history of of UAP

828
00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:24,000
studies and and outlining our approach

829
00:28:29,149 --> 00:28:26,340
as well and how we fit into that awesome

830
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:29,159
very interesting So speaking of how you

831
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:30,960
fit in what about yourself so what what

832
00:28:34,130 --> 00:28:32,580
is specifically you're doing to help the

833
00:28:36,529 --> 00:28:34,140
Galileo project now what is your title

834
00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:36,539
within that effort yeah yeah yeah so I

835
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:37,620
talked a little bit about kind of the

836
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:39,120
two other branches but the one that's

837
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:40,860
the most relevant to this podcast is the

838
00:28:45,169 --> 00:28:43,740
UAP Branch so uh that's definitely uh

839
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:45,179
you know where I spend most of my time

840
00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:47,520
now so within that effort I'm working on

841
00:28:51,169 --> 00:28:49,260
instrumentation so I'm on the ground

842
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:51,179
building things you know troubleshooting

843
00:28:57,049 --> 00:28:53,720
Hardware debugging all that fun stuff

844
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:57,059
and I started that uh four days after

845
00:29:01,730 --> 00:28:58,799
graduating actually from undergrad at

846
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:01,740
Wellesley I just went right into it and

847
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,299
I started off just as like a summer

848
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:06,240
research fellow so my time was supposed

849
00:29:10,669 --> 00:29:09,120
to be 50 with Wellesley 50 with Harvard

850
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,679
um I should also mention that Wellesley

851
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:12,240
has a smaller subgroup within the

852
00:29:15,409 --> 00:29:13,679
Galileo project related they call

853
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,419
themselves Celeste which is Galileo's

854
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:17,760
daughter's name which makes sense uh so

855
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:19,679
they have a small group working there as

856
00:29:24,350 --> 00:29:22,080
well uh because within this UAP you know

857
00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:24,360
goal we have an observatory class system

858
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,460
that's you know what I work with now

859
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:28,320
that's your like about on the scale of

860
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:32,399
250 000 and then we have uh you know one

861
00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:34,200
level below that order magnitude below

862
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,700
that and that's what Wellesley is

863
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:37,440
working on so they're you know aiming

864
00:29:41,149 --> 00:29:38,760
for about twenty five thousand dollars

865
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:41,159
kind of like a rack mount uh oh I should

866
00:29:45,169 --> 00:29:42,960
mention sorry I should say so you have

867
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:45,179
the observatory class system about 250

868
00:29:50,269 --> 00:29:47,940
000 uh that's you know what I work with

869
00:29:51,710 --> 00:29:50,279
most and then we also have Wellesley

870
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:51,720
system which is a level below that

871
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,240
that's 25 000 it's a non-weatherized

872
00:29:58,370 --> 00:29:56,399
system but it gives you you know enough

873
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,380
things that you know we still have some

874
00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:00,480
IR cameras we have a microphone it's

875
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:02,820
just maybe not as expensive as you know

876
00:30:06,769 --> 00:30:05,279
the highest level and then below that we

877
00:30:09,529 --> 00:30:06,779
have like a rack mount system and that

878
00:30:10,850 --> 00:30:09,539
we're aiming for about like uh two

879
00:30:12,830 --> 00:30:10,860
thousand five hundred dollars so that's

880
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:12,840
kind of like our our three tiered

881
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:14,340
approach because you know we can't

882
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:17,760
expect to uh everyone to have oh okay

883
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,440
yeah I have a quarter of a million

884
00:30:23,389 --> 00:30:21,600
dollars to give let me just have this

885
00:30:24,830 --> 00:30:23,399
Observatory class system on my roof um

886
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,840
not everyone has a roof that you know

887
00:30:27,889 --> 00:30:26,640
has something that big so you know we

888
00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:27,899
kind of make these different levels so

889
00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:29,820
that we can engage in the best way

890
00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:31,500
possible especially you know if there's

891
00:30:35,690 --> 00:30:33,000
an area where you know sightings start

892
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:35,700
to pop up we can bring the the rack

893
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:37,320
mount system or the Wellesley system

894
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,760
that's non-weatherized and just kind of

895
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,559
set it up temporarily and just get some

896
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:42,000
data so that's kind of the reasoning

897
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,679
behind those three but yeah just working

898
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,600
on instrumentation and supporting the

899
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,279
group so I don't really have a fancy

900
00:30:51,169 --> 00:30:49,679
name I'm just a research fellow but what

901
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:51,179
kind of instruments are on let's say

902
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:53,100
maybe the largest one there I assume

903
00:30:55,850 --> 00:30:54,299
that has the most sensors I could be

904
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:55,860
wrong but yeah exactly has the most

905
00:30:59,090 --> 00:30:56,880
sensors

906
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:59,100
um what are you looking for yeah I feel

907
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,720
like we're just casting a wide net

908
00:31:03,950 --> 00:31:01,919
because we don't really know what to

909
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:03,960
look for so we're trying to cover all

910
00:31:08,810 --> 00:31:06,240
bases so let's see if I can list all of

911
00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:08,820
them uh so we have an audio system

912
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:11,580
that's recording you know audible range

913
00:31:17,289 --> 00:31:14,100
but also infrasound and ultrasound range

914
00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:17,299
then we have an infrared camera system

915
00:31:22,610 --> 00:31:20,100
and that's made up it kind of looks like

916
00:31:24,649 --> 00:31:22,620
uh it's called the Dalek we call it kind

917
00:31:26,269 --> 00:31:24,659
maybe looks like R2D2 uh you'll see

918
00:31:27,529 --> 00:31:26,279
pictures in the papers and they're

919
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:27,539
probably if you go and they got like a

920
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:28,980
project website you can see videos of

921
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:30,539
our instrumentation

922
00:31:33,529 --> 00:31:32,159
um or some of it at least so that's one

923
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:33,539
that's on there and that is made up of

924
00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:35,820
some boson cameras and infrared around

925
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,860
the base and then one on the top that's

926
00:31:41,570 --> 00:31:40,080
looking you know at the Zenith kind of

927
00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:41,580
area location which is like right above

928
00:31:45,289 --> 00:31:43,260
had overhead

929
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,299
um and then it's ozone detected oh it's

930
00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:47,039
just it's a type of camera got it yeah

931
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:49,320
yeah yeah it's a it's like a company I

932
00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:52,799
think very good at that yeah so then we

933
00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:55,380
also have a visible camera so that's

934
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,700
like if you sat with your eyes and

935
00:32:01,130 --> 00:31:58,320
looked up the sky but in high resolution

936
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:01,140
I'm kind of blind so I would not uh see

937
00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:02,460
as well as this camera one but that's

938
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,980
like 4K resolution and then we also have

939
00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:07,200
a tracking camera so those are going to

940
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,240
talk to each other so that tracking

941
00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:11,760
camera it's actually it's um it's a

942
00:32:17,409 --> 00:32:13,860
security camera but you know we're using

943
00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:17,419
it for or not security purposes uh so

944
00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:20,940
exactly yeah exactly uh so if the

945
00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:22,020
infrared cameras see something

946
00:32:26,690 --> 00:32:24,120
interesting if our AI algorithms you

947
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,700
know say okay hey this thing is weird uh

948
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:28,080
again the whole question of how do you

949
00:32:30,889 --> 00:32:29,460
determine what is weird comes up again

950
00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:30,899
that's something we have to revisit and

951
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,340
talk about a lot

952
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:34,980
um then the the camera is going to track

953
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:37,200
point to it and then zoom in and try to

954
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:38,760
get higher resolution then maybe our

955
00:32:42,409 --> 00:32:40,500
infrared cameras would

956
00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:42,419
um let's see what else we have a

957
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:46,440
spectrum analyzer we have a magnetometer

958
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:49,260
we also have we're working on a passive

959
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,120
radar solution because we can't have the

960
00:32:54,350 --> 00:32:53,460
beautiful radar that you guys have and

961
00:32:57,070 --> 00:32:54,360
the reason we're trying to do that

962
00:33:00,409 --> 00:32:57,080
passively is so that we can more easily

963
00:33:02,750 --> 00:33:00,419
set up our system and not influence you

964
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:02,760
know areas around us it's hard if you're

965
00:33:06,529 --> 00:33:05,340
emitting radio signals that's uh it's

966
00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:06,539
very hard to get approval and everything

967
00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:08,820
for that yeah exactly so if you're

968
00:33:13,070 --> 00:33:10,620
passive you're just sitting there

969
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:13,080
so it's it's you know that technology is

970
00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:14,640
really cool but it's still developing so

971
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:17,220
uh very early stages of that but I think

972
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:19,080
oh we also have a weather station that's

973
00:33:22,009 --> 00:33:20,399
really important because you need to

974
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:22,019
monitor atmosphere conditions because we

975
00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:23,519
don't know these phenomena could also be

976
00:33:27,169 --> 00:33:25,620
related to weather as well so I think

977
00:33:28,730 --> 00:33:27,179
we're just trying to do everything you

978
00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:28,740
know making no assumptions about what's

979
00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:30,120
already out there

980
00:33:33,769 --> 00:33:31,320
um which it's pretty hard because

981
00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:33,779
usually the way science is done is that

982
00:33:37,549 --> 00:33:35,580
you maybe have a hypothesis or some kind

983
00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:37,559
of ideas that are you know maybe gently

984
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:39,000
guiding you to a solution you're like

985
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:40,260
okay well I know I have to work within

986
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:41,700
this framework or try to answer these

987
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:42,960
questions

988
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,179
um but we don't really have anything to

989
00:33:50,210 --> 00:33:47,519
go off of at least from a scientific

990
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:50,220
point you know a big a big thing was you

991
00:33:55,130 --> 00:33:53,220
know do we take into account uh people

992
00:33:57,289 --> 00:33:55,140
like witness accounts is that something

993
00:33:59,630 --> 00:33:57,299
we can use scientifically to justify why

994
00:34:01,789 --> 00:33:59,640
we're going to this place or why we have

995
00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:01,799
this instrument or that instrument so it

996
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,440
gets kind of sticky it's hard to uh to

997
00:34:07,250 --> 00:34:06,000
do it because then it's like you don't

998
00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:07,260
want to ignore the witness accounts

999
00:34:11,089 --> 00:34:08,060
either

1000
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:11,099
but you know trying to to set the

1001
00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:12,960
standard for what the science approach

1002
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:14,760
scientific approach for UAP is like is

1003
00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:15,960
you know not something that's super

1004
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,940
trivial so I think just casting a wide

1005
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:19,919
net letting letting the data speak for

1006
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:22,200
itself and you know telling us what's

1007
00:34:25,609 --> 00:34:23,399
interesting and what's not interesting

1008
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:25,619
that that's interesting too is like if

1009
00:34:31,129 --> 00:34:28,320
if the audio and cameras are going off

1010
00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:31,139
crazy and again what is crazy I don't

1011
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:33,000
know but if for some reason they're

1012
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,040
finding signatures that are just bizarre

1013
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:37,200
but we go over maybe to our passive

1014
00:34:40,669 --> 00:34:38,639
radar or the magnetometer and things

1015
00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:40,679
look you know sound as can be that's

1016
00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:42,300
also interesting because you know we

1017
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:43,740
might have some kind of phenomena there

1018
00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:46,139
as well so that's my long answer to your

1019
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:48,540
question does science work like that in

1020
00:34:56,089 --> 00:34:52,200
other fields or in other examples

1021
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:56,099
I don't know if I know I think I guess

1022
00:35:01,130 --> 00:34:58,320
thinking about like computer science I

1023
00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:01,140
think uh with AI the whole point of AI

1024
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:03,420
is to you know not have humans make

1025
00:35:06,410 --> 00:35:05,160
assumptions but have the computer kind

1026
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:06,420
of make them and that's definitely what

1027
00:35:09,650 --> 00:35:08,160
we're relying on in our systems to

1028
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:09,660
determine like what is weird it's like

1029
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:11,160
well we humans shouldn't shouldn't be

1030
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,960
involved in that we're heavily biased

1031
00:35:16,849 --> 00:35:15,119
but computer systems you know they do a

1032
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:16,859
better job at you know you know

1033
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,960
clustering things and and grouping

1034
00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:20,880
things and and just determining outliers

1035
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,920
so I I would say you know in statistics

1036
00:35:27,290 --> 00:35:25,200
of course you always are looking at data

1037
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:27,300
sets and determining outliers so in that

1038
00:35:33,650 --> 00:35:30,540
sense I think maybe it's similar but the

1039
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:33,660
whole approach of you know having to uh

1040
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:35,579
yeah if you only have witness a callus I

1041
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:37,619
can't really think of any other science

1042
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:39,060
maybe where it's like that but there's

1043
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:40,740
probably something I wonder if you could

1044
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:42,480
yeah if you had a large enough data set

1045
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:43,920
you know perhaps

1046
00:35:50,329 --> 00:35:45,240
pull out

1047
00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:50,339
learning that was consistent across all

1048
00:35:54,770 --> 00:35:52,380
the cases that other mods might not be

1049
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:54,780
detected yeah yeah do you think that's

1050
00:35:59,089 --> 00:35:57,000
happening or is that happening

1051
00:36:00,829 --> 00:35:59,099
um do you know if that's happening uh in

1052
00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:00,839
The Wider astronomy field for Signal

1053
00:36:05,089 --> 00:36:03,540
detection uh within the data sets that

1054
00:36:07,609 --> 00:36:05,099
we're receiving I'll say from further

1055
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:09,290
I think that'd be a question I wish I

1056
00:36:12,290 --> 00:36:10,920
knew more about like the study Institute

1057
00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:12,300
for instance because I know like they're

1058
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,000
looking at techno signatures and I'm

1059
00:36:18,829 --> 00:36:17,520
sure they have you know things that

1060
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,839
they're using to determine you know if

1061
00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:20,880
something is worth looking into more uh

1062
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:22,260
but yeah I don't really know enough to

1063
00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:23,940
speak about it one of the one of the

1064
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,220
reasons I ask you that is because

1065
00:36:30,349 --> 00:36:28,320
um I think I've read some articles about

1066
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:30,359
that of course the further away you get

1067
00:36:34,849 --> 00:36:33,060
from Earth it seems uh or from us the

1068
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:34,859
more comfortable we are looking

1069
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:36,960
for life elsewhere the more

1070
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:39,359
scientifically acceptable it is

1071
00:36:46,849 --> 00:36:45,109
I don't know

1072
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:46,859
I would love to read those papers if you

1073
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,060
remember what they are I don't think

1074
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,880
I've come across them but yeah uh

1075
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:52,800
yeah I mean I think like the universe is

1076
00:36:57,410 --> 00:36:54,540
really big so sometimes we have to look

1077
00:36:59,569 --> 00:36:57,420
really far to uh to try to see other

1078
00:37:01,370 --> 00:36:59,579
systems that are like ours

1079
00:37:04,010 --> 00:37:01,380
um

1080
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:04,020
but yeah it is interesting because the

1081
00:37:08,270 --> 00:37:06,660
the way kind of like light works so when

1082
00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:08,280
you're looking farther away you're also

1083
00:37:13,550 --> 00:37:11,339
looking further back into time uh

1084
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:13,560
because you know for non-sides people

1085
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:16,140
listening or watching

1086
00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:18,660
um light has to travel so if you're

1087
00:37:22,430 --> 00:37:21,060
looking farther away that means that the

1088
00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:22,440
light is going to take more time to get

1089
00:37:26,329 --> 00:37:24,300
to you so as you look further and

1090
00:37:28,490 --> 00:37:26,339
further away you're like seeing that

1091
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,500
light well when the Light reaches you

1092
00:37:32,210 --> 00:37:30,240
you know that's there was some time that

1093
00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:32,220
had to pass when it was being sent so

1094
00:37:36,349 --> 00:37:34,260
it's like I think you see this in a lot

1095
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:36,359
of James Webb you know imagery you see

1096
00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:38,280
like really red galaxies so that's

1097
00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:40,200
something called a redshift so um the

1098
00:37:43,790 --> 00:37:41,880
universe is also expanding so when that

1099
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,800
light is traveling the universe is

1100
00:37:48,109 --> 00:37:45,359
expanding it's shifting to better

1101
00:37:50,089 --> 00:37:48,119
wavelengths which are longer wavelengths

1102
00:37:53,329 --> 00:37:50,099
and because that's to cover more space

1103
00:37:57,050 --> 00:37:53,339
so it's that whole uh play of you know

1104
00:37:59,089 --> 00:37:57,060
space and time but uh yeah I forget your

1105
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,099
original question okay I do that all the

1106
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,200
time uh but really you know

1107
00:38:05,089 --> 00:38:03,119
we have the seti and steady looks out

1108
00:38:07,730 --> 00:38:05,099
and looks for distant radio waves and

1109
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:07,740
you know maybe that just feels safer to

1110
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:09,000
us to think that we can look out there

1111
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:10,079
and if we find something it's not

1112
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:11,760
immediately threatening yeah okay I

1113
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:13,140
think I understand your question look at

1114
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:14,160
Mars and it's like maybe there's

1115
00:38:17,930 --> 00:38:15,960
microbes there right and yeah that's not

1116
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:17,940
very interesting yeah but then when we

1117
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,740
consider if there's something in our sky

1118
00:38:23,210 --> 00:38:21,359
that theoretically could potentially be

1119
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:23,220
from elsewhere that's a much more scary

1120
00:38:27,349 --> 00:38:25,560
thought so yeah and also it's scary to

1121
00:38:28,430 --> 00:38:27,359
think about if there's or at least I

1122
00:38:29,630 --> 00:38:28,440
would say it's scary I don't know if

1123
00:38:31,790 --> 00:38:29,640
everyone else would maybe they think

1124
00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:31,800
it's cool uh there's other civilizations

1125
00:38:36,109 --> 00:38:33,540
that are more technologically advanced

1126
00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:36,119
than we are I think that also you know

1127
00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:37,740
is playing into that whole idea of again

1128
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,480
like paradigms

1129
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:41,760
um if you are seeing signatures you know

1130
00:38:46,370 --> 00:38:44,040
maybe but I guess they signatures can be

1131
00:38:48,650 --> 00:38:46,380
threatening words hurt too but it's like

1132
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:48,660
do they speak the same language like

1133
00:38:51,890 --> 00:38:50,160
probably not like how do they

1134
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,900
communicate so

1135
00:38:55,069 --> 00:38:54,000
um but yeah no I do I do think it's just

1136
00:38:57,410 --> 00:38:55,079
like

1137
00:38:58,849 --> 00:38:57,420
again it's all it's also been hard

1138
00:39:00,829 --> 00:38:58,859
because everything

1139
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:00,839
that you know like your detectors and

1140
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:03,660
everything that you have used or seen

1141
00:39:07,130 --> 00:39:05,040
with you know other fighter pilots

1142
00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:07,140
that's all like classified and we're

1143
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:09,300
getting kind of these bits from you know

1144
00:39:12,589 --> 00:39:10,740
the government reports that are coming

1145
00:39:14,210 --> 00:39:12,599
out but it's not enough for us to like

1146
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,220
actually scientifically evaluate you

1147
00:39:19,069 --> 00:39:16,320
know the situation so we kind of have to

1148
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:19,079
take our own our own data to figure that

1149
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:20,940
part out

1150
00:39:24,109 --> 00:39:23,220
and you know I know that can that leads

1151
00:39:27,470 --> 00:39:24,119
to

1152
00:39:29,390 --> 00:39:27,480
and say this is still an initial

1153
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,400
nonsense or try to you know discourage

1154
00:39:33,530 --> 00:39:31,680
you perhaps from uh engaging in this

1155
00:39:35,870 --> 00:39:33,540
field so you know as you were

1156
00:39:38,569 --> 00:39:35,880
considering kind of engaging in the

1157
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:38,579
Galileo project I mean you know you said

1158
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:39,599
you didn't really necessarily know what

1159
00:39:42,650 --> 00:39:40,920
you're getting into but now here you are

1160
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:42,660
you know all my podcast talking about it

1161
00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:43,920
so

1162
00:39:48,109 --> 00:39:46,200
um what has been you know you made a

1163
00:39:50,510 --> 00:39:48,119
decision to kind of kind of lean into

1164
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:50,520
this a bit yeah um

1165
00:39:54,109 --> 00:39:52,380
did anyone have any conversations with

1166
00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:54,119
you and discuss you know potentially

1167
00:39:57,890 --> 00:39:55,560
what the implications of that could be

1168
00:40:00,349 --> 00:39:57,900
or was there any pushback where your

1169
00:40:02,270 --> 00:40:00,359
experience is kind of diving into this

1170
00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:02,280
yeah and I think that's something I'd

1171
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:03,720
love to talk about because I'm sure now

1172
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:07,140
as you know more people are coming into

1173
00:40:10,609 --> 00:40:08,460
this field it's something they may be

1174
00:40:12,109 --> 00:40:10,619
thinking about or or considering you

1175
00:40:14,270 --> 00:40:12,119
know as reasons for them not to get

1176
00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:14,280
involved I don't think I ever received

1177
00:40:17,150 --> 00:40:15,960
any like official warnings or you know

1178
00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:17,160
anything

1179
00:40:21,650 --> 00:40:19,320
um but it was just kind of unspoken like

1180
00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:21,660
okay uh I guess I should say so I was

1181
00:40:25,609 --> 00:40:24,060
doing the independent study and then

1182
00:40:27,470 --> 00:40:25,619
um that same you know professors

1183
00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:27,480
Professor West Waters asked you know

1184
00:40:30,890 --> 00:40:29,220
what I like to do with Summer research

1185
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,900
with the Galileo project you know

1186
00:40:34,609 --> 00:40:32,640
working on instrumentation so switching

1187
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:34,619
branches but still under the same

1188
00:40:39,170 --> 00:40:37,140
umbrella and you know at that point I

1189
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:39,180
had you know full intentions of applying

1190
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:43,020
to grad school that next year so I was

1191
00:40:47,089 --> 00:40:44,400
just thinking you know I mean I did

1192
00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:47,099
think about it I was thinking okay

1193
00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:49,380
is my involvement how's this how's my

1194
00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:52,680
involvement going to be received from

1195
00:40:57,770 --> 00:40:54,660
people who are maybe viewing my

1196
00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:57,780
application for grad school

1197
00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:00,780
um and I definitely had to take take a

1198
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:02,280
little bit of time to you know think

1199
00:41:06,589 --> 00:41:03,960
about that and you know weigh pros and

1200
00:41:09,770 --> 00:41:06,599
cons because I think it'd be silly to

1201
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:09,780
say like oh I don't care it'll be fine

1202
00:41:14,750 --> 00:41:12,000
but if you kind of make this decision

1203
00:41:16,670 --> 00:41:14,760
you might be uh affected for your career

1204
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:16,680
or at least that's that's what I was

1205
00:41:22,310 --> 00:41:19,560
telling myself but eventually I I was

1206
00:41:24,290 --> 00:41:22,320
looking at the project and you know my

1207
00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:24,300
experiences up until then had been no

1208
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:26,700
different than any other research

1209
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,560
astronomy research experiences like the

1210
00:41:32,510 --> 00:41:30,480
previous summer I was at Cornell working

1211
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,520
on instrumentation for that's going to

1212
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,880
look at it's a cosmology instrumentation

1213
00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:37,680
so it didn't feel the atmosphere didn't

1214
00:41:41,089 --> 00:41:39,660
feel any different than that so I was

1215
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:41,099
like okay well as long as I can explain

1216
00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:43,440
myself and you know the things that I'm

1217
00:41:49,550 --> 00:41:46,020
doing are very fundamental they're

1218
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:49,560
scientific I'm I'm developing skills in

1219
00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:51,780
Hardware coding debugging all of that

1220
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,780
and that's going to be really helpful

1221
00:41:58,130 --> 00:41:56,400
um so I just kind of thought okay it's

1222
00:42:01,790 --> 00:41:58,140
going to be about frame gaming

1223
00:42:03,710 --> 00:42:01,800
moving forward but also if I'm applying

1224
00:42:06,170 --> 00:42:03,720
to these institutions and they're going

1225
00:42:07,849 --> 00:42:06,180
to judge me for engaging in this topic

1226
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:07,859
even though it's with the proper

1227
00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:09,599
methodology or a great methodology

1228
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,460
that's probably not a place I want to be

1229
00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:13,680
anyway so I'll go ahead and let them

1230
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,260
filter themselves out because I don't I

1231
00:42:20,589 --> 00:42:18,480
don't want to go to a place and and be

1232
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,599
surrounded by people who are not

1233
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:22,800
encouraging of you know scientific

1234
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:24,240
processes because again it's like

1235
00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:26,700
nothing that we're doing is is maybe

1236
00:42:33,470 --> 00:42:30,540
different in terms of our like our

1237
00:42:36,349 --> 00:42:33,480
science goals you know we follow all the

1238
00:42:37,609 --> 00:42:36,359
same processes that you would if you

1239
00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:37,619
were working on another scientific

1240
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,180
project because just the application is

1241
00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:40,800
a little different yeah the application

1242
00:42:44,690 --> 00:42:41,820
is a little different the target's

1243
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,700
different but you know who cares so

1244
00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:46,079
that's kind of I just was like you know

1245
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,060
I'm going to lean into it

1246
00:42:52,910 --> 00:42:49,920
um and you know I I really I've never

1247
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:52,920
received any pushback we were speaking a

1248
00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:54,599
little earlier I applied to grad school

1249
00:42:58,490 --> 00:42:56,520
I've been admitted to you know multiple

1250
00:43:00,829 --> 00:42:58,500
places so it seems like it it's it's

1251
00:43:02,569 --> 00:43:00,839
been well received and

1252
00:43:05,150 --> 00:43:02,579
um I think that fear I had in my head

1253
00:43:06,410 --> 00:43:05,160
was totally like self-fabricated and I

1254
00:43:08,329 --> 00:43:06,420
think the people that maybe do think

1255
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:08,339
that way maybe they just stay quiet

1256
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,040
which uh you know that's fine but I

1257
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:12,960
really do think that over time it's

1258
00:43:17,329 --> 00:43:15,000
going to change a lot I mean just like

1259
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:17,339
talking about it to my friends uh and

1260
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,900
family like they're all just so excited

1261
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,640
to hear about what's going on and you

1262
00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:22,560
know I've been really able to bond with

1263
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:25,980
a lot of my family members like my um my

1264
00:43:31,069 --> 00:43:28,500
grandfather or my great-grandfather was

1265
00:43:34,010 --> 00:43:31,079
worked on planes in World War II

1266
00:43:35,150 --> 00:43:34,020
um so uh like I feel like in some ways

1267
00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:35,160
I'm kind of

1268
00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:37,140
you know engaging with that side of my

1269
00:43:39,530 --> 00:43:38,280
family and you know they've been

1270
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:39,540
interested in the topic for reasons

1271
00:43:43,849 --> 00:43:40,800
because I think it kind of started out

1272
00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:43,859
in like a military kind of perspective

1273
00:43:48,650 --> 00:43:46,440
and it's cool about the military person

1274
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:48,660
or LED UAP kind of topic it's like

1275
00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:51,599
that's where they started having these

1276
00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:53,400
uh where they started kind of maybe

1277
00:43:58,430 --> 00:43:56,220
collecting science or collecting data

1278
00:44:00,410 --> 00:43:58,440
about these objects because before that

1279
00:44:02,270 --> 00:44:00,420
I think it had mostly been witness

1280
00:44:04,130 --> 00:44:02,280
accounts so that's kind of the first

1281
00:44:06,349 --> 00:44:04,140
time where they were like it's weird

1282
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,359
because our instruments said that they

1283
00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:08,880
were kind of strange so in some ways

1284
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:09,900
like I'm talking into like my

1285
00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:12,240
grandfather who also you know was was a

1286
00:44:15,890 --> 00:44:14,520
pilot and I think like talking to him

1287
00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:15,900
has been has been awesome you know he's

1288
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:17,640
just fascinated by it

1289
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:20,880
um has he seen anything no no I wish I

1290
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:24,000
wish I had stories but no I don't have

1291
00:44:28,670 --> 00:44:25,920
any but I think it's just the idea of it

1292
00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:28,680
uh and they're just really excited that

1293
00:44:31,970 --> 00:44:31,140
you know I I think the other point I'll

1294
00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:31,980
make

1295
00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:34,500
is that I think one of the reasons that

1296
00:44:39,290 --> 00:44:37,560
the Galileo project has you know gone to

1297
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:39,300
where it is now is because of that

1298
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,560
Harvard name that's attached to it so I

1299
00:44:47,450 --> 00:44:45,359
think that has helped give it

1300
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,460
credibility

1301
00:44:51,650 --> 00:44:49,200
um which you know might not have had if

1302
00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:51,660
it was another institution unfortunately

1303
00:44:55,069 --> 00:44:53,460
so I definitely when I was like telling

1304
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:55,079
people about my job I would definitely

1305
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,640
lean into that first like oh I'm doing

1306
00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:58,560
research at Harvard and I'd be like okay

1307
00:45:01,730 --> 00:45:00,119
maybe they'll ask what I'm doing oh I'm

1308
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:01,740
doing instrumentation

1309
00:45:07,550 --> 00:45:06,060
oh uh instrumentation yeah for UAV so I

1310
00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:07,560
definitely like kind of had I would

1311
00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:09,420
approach that in layers for probably the

1312
00:45:12,770 --> 00:45:11,160
first couple of weeks I was working and

1313
00:45:15,050 --> 00:45:12,780
then like I said I just decided you know

1314
00:45:16,970 --> 00:45:15,060
what I think this is worth speaking

1315
00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:16,980
about and I kind of just gained

1316
00:45:20,990 --> 00:45:19,260
confidence in that in the mission and I

1317
00:45:24,050 --> 00:45:21,000
was like okay we're just gonna lead with

1318
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:24,060
that so anytime we're like out with and

1319
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:25,440
I'm meeting new people or acquaintances

1320
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,359
and I'm with people for instance like my

1321
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:30,000
roommates who know what I do uh and you

1322
00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:31,140
know people come over they're like oh

1323
00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:32,460
yeah what do you do for work and we all

1324
00:45:35,930 --> 00:45:33,540
just kind of look at each other and

1325
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:35,940
smile because we know that my answer is

1326
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:38,160
gonna kind of blow their mind so I've

1327
00:45:41,450 --> 00:45:39,660
just like leaned into that and it's it's

1328
00:45:43,490 --> 00:45:41,460
become like really fun and I think

1329
00:45:45,890 --> 00:45:43,500
that's one of the ways we can at least

1330
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,900
as young people like bring this uh or

1331
00:45:50,089 --> 00:45:47,760
help this discussion is to just talk

1332
00:45:51,230 --> 00:45:50,099
about it more and you know do it in a

1333
00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:51,240
sense that isn't talking about Sci-Fi

1334
00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:53,220
movies but actually talking about like

1335
00:45:56,930 --> 00:45:55,140
you know people's jobs and and how

1336
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,940
they're engaging with it into science

1337
00:46:01,010 --> 00:45:59,280
yeah it's incredible are you seeing that

1338
00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:01,020
your friends are much more open to the

1339
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:03,180
topic yeah and I think again that kind

1340
00:46:07,609 --> 00:46:04,800
of plays into like with time I think

1341
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:07,619
it'll it'll it'll change uh but yeah I

1342
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:10,440
haven't ever to my face at least I've

1343
00:46:15,230 --> 00:46:12,300
received any pushback from friends it's

1344
00:46:17,930 --> 00:46:15,240
all been like genuine interest that's

1345
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,940
very cool yeah among authors

1346
00:46:23,930 --> 00:46:20,160
um do you think that this is a field or

1347
00:46:26,569 --> 00:46:23,940
topic you're gonna continue to pursue or

1348
00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:26,579
actually I'll just stop and say that

1349
00:46:30,190 --> 00:46:28,200
that's a million dollar question and Avi

1350
00:46:33,290 --> 00:46:30,200
wants to know that answer too

1351
00:46:37,069 --> 00:46:33,300
uh yeah no I think like

1352
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:37,079
I don't think I ever want to cold turkey

1353
00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:39,780
quit my involvement

1354
00:46:45,950 --> 00:46:42,060
um but I am also interested in other

1355
00:46:47,210 --> 00:46:45,960
aspects of the universe so I think

1356
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:47,220
I

1357
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,200
it just kind of depends on on what

1358
00:46:53,690 --> 00:46:51,839
opportunities are out there again

1359
00:46:55,550 --> 00:46:53,700
I've kind of proven that maybe if you

1360
00:46:57,410 --> 00:46:55,560
work on this in undergrad it's not going

1361
00:46:58,910 --> 00:46:57,420
to follow me into grad school but then

1362
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:58,920
you know that same question comes up

1363
00:47:02,930 --> 00:47:00,960
okay when I'm in grad school and I'm

1364
00:47:04,730 --> 00:47:02,940
applying for post-doctor I eventually

1365
00:47:06,349 --> 00:47:04,740
want to be a professor

1366
00:47:08,210 --> 00:47:06,359
um currently it's my single I'll

1367
00:47:09,950 --> 00:47:08,220
probably change in a few years no that's

1368
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:09,960
that's for it now but then it's like

1369
00:47:14,270 --> 00:47:11,760
okay well that if I do it in grad school

1370
00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:14,280
that follow me there so it's something I

1371
00:47:17,870 --> 00:47:16,260
have to think about but you know there's

1372
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:17,880
so many great mentors in the project

1373
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:19,440
that I've been able to kind of have

1374
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,420
these conversations with especially when

1375
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:23,280
I was applying just like how do I word

1376
00:47:27,470 --> 00:47:24,960
things or whatever and they they really

1377
00:47:30,290 --> 00:47:27,480
helped me uh with that and you know lean

1378
00:47:31,609 --> 00:47:30,300
into the science aspect of it uh so but

1379
00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:31,619
you know I

1380
00:47:38,569 --> 00:47:34,680
I can't help uh

1381
00:47:41,089 --> 00:47:38,579
but want to continue doing the work in

1382
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,099
some capacity so I think it'll just

1383
00:47:44,809 --> 00:47:43,680
depend on what can I write a thesis

1384
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,819
about because that does kind of our

1385
00:47:49,730 --> 00:47:46,800
dissertation about yeah because it does

1386
00:47:52,609 --> 00:47:49,740
kind of have to be this uh packaged like

1387
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:52,619
project that you do so but I'm keeping

1388
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,180
the idea open I'm just trying to go into

1389
00:47:58,849 --> 00:47:56,640
it with an open mind and uh we'll see

1390
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:58,859
we'll see what that leads me awesome

1391
00:48:03,530 --> 00:48:01,440
what would you recommend to

1392
00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:03,540
um people that were in your shoes a few

1393
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:05,640
years ago that are you know making

1394
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:07,200
decisions about where they want to go to

1395
00:48:11,630 --> 00:48:09,839
school or what they want to study you

1396
00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:11,640
know not saying you have to say you

1397
00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:13,260
should look into UAP or this but you

1398
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,819
know you you basically stuck to your

1399
00:48:18,770 --> 00:48:17,040
guns and you know

1400
00:48:21,410 --> 00:48:18,780
had The Bravery to have this

1401
00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:21,420
conversation against you know the

1402
00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:23,400
popular culture and against

1403
00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:25,560
um the skepticism out there so

1404
00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:27,720
you know what advice or what would you

1405
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,400
offer to anyone

1406
00:48:35,390 --> 00:48:31,440
um younger than you looking into this

1407
00:48:37,490 --> 00:48:35,400
and going into college yeah I have like

1408
00:48:39,170 --> 00:48:37,500
so much advice I feel like

1409
00:48:40,250 --> 00:48:39,180
so many things I would show you like you

1410
00:48:41,569 --> 00:48:40,260
know could have told myself I feel like

1411
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:41,579
it's easier to speak to my younger self

1412
00:48:44,210 --> 00:48:42,720
so I'll do that and then if this

1413
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:44,220
resonates with anyone sure that's

1414
00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:47,520
amazing uh I would just say like explore

1415
00:48:50,569 --> 00:48:49,260
as much as you can even if you think you

1416
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:50,579
know what you want to do just sign up

1417
00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:52,319
for that weird class sign up for

1418
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:55,260
something fun uh that you might not have

1419
00:48:59,870 --> 00:48:57,720
you might not have any other chance to

1420
00:49:01,490 --> 00:48:59,880
engage with and if you like it even if

1421
00:49:05,569 --> 00:49:01,500
you're not great at it just keep trying

1422
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,579
and keep pursuing it and

1423
00:49:10,370 --> 00:49:08,160
I think that's that's kind of what got

1424
00:49:12,530 --> 00:49:10,380
me into astronomy but even then when it

1425
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:12,540
comes to like graduate school

1426
00:49:16,849 --> 00:49:14,880
um I think you know evaluate your goals

1427
00:49:18,589 --> 00:49:16,859
and if graduate school fits into them

1428
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,599
that's awesome and and you should pursue

1429
00:49:23,150 --> 00:49:20,880
it but uh by no means you know not

1430
00:49:24,650 --> 00:49:23,160
everything needs to have a advanced

1431
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,660
degree behind it so even if you know if

1432
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,400
you don't want to go to college uh just

1433
00:49:30,589 --> 00:49:27,839
do find things that you're passionate

1434
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:30,599
about and try to engage with them but

1435
00:49:35,930 --> 00:49:34,020
also you know acknowledge that

1436
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:35,940
what your goals are and just try to work

1437
00:49:43,370 --> 00:49:39,660
towards them so I think uh

1438
00:49:44,930 --> 00:49:43,380
you know I wish I wish I could could go

1439
00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:44,940
back and tell myself where I am now

1440
00:49:47,809 --> 00:49:46,560
because I think I would just be utterly

1441
00:49:49,730 --> 00:49:47,819
shocked

1442
00:49:51,770 --> 00:49:49,740
um little Ryan Bishop yeah exactly I'm

1443
00:49:53,809 --> 00:49:51,780
like when I was eight I wanted to be on

1444
00:49:55,790 --> 00:49:53,819
Broadway you can have like I don't want

1445
00:49:57,530 --> 00:49:55,800
that anymore uh but I think that's okay

1446
00:49:59,089 --> 00:49:57,540
you know it's okay to like change what

1447
00:50:00,589 --> 00:49:59,099
you want to do and it's okay to change

1448
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,599
your mind

1449
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:03,119
um and it's okay to you know maybe do

1450
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,760
work that not everyone in your family or

1451
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:07,680
in your circle maybe like it's gonna

1452
00:50:12,890 --> 00:50:10,680
approve of obviously you know

1453
00:50:14,210 --> 00:50:12,900
you should check in with people and make

1454
00:50:17,329 --> 00:50:14,220
sure that you know it's not like

1455
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:17,339
anything too wild but there are some

1456
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:18,960
boundaries there there are boundaries

1457
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:20,280
but you know when it comes to topics

1458
00:50:24,589 --> 00:50:21,780
like this that

1459
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:24,599
um have ridicule like look into why that

1460
00:50:29,450 --> 00:50:26,940
ridicule is there in the first place and

1461
00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:29,460
don't you know read a bunch of Articles

1462
00:50:34,130 --> 00:50:32,040
and just conglomerate their opinions

1463
00:50:37,250 --> 00:50:34,140
together uh really think about like what

1464
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:37,260
your belief system is so I think

1465
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:39,300
that is really important not worrying

1466
00:50:42,589 --> 00:50:41,220
about how people are going to perceive

1467
00:50:44,569 --> 00:50:42,599
it if you're passionate about something

1468
00:50:46,730 --> 00:50:44,579
frame it in a way that is going to be

1469
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:46,740
acceptable to others and if it's not

1470
00:50:50,450 --> 00:50:48,960
acceptable to them maybe take that as a

1471
00:50:53,329 --> 00:50:50,460
sign that that's not somewhere where you

1472
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:53,339
want to be anyway that's great advice

1473
00:50:57,950 --> 00:50:56,160
awesome so where is the Galileo project

1474
00:50:59,569 --> 00:50:57,960
today you know I they're they're

1475
00:51:01,549 --> 00:50:59,579
building centers You're Building sensors

1476
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,559
you have a couple different types a big

1477
00:51:05,089 --> 00:51:03,119
expensive one and you're working to

1478
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:05,099
bring the cost down and make them more

1479
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:06,480
scalable

1480
00:51:10,730 --> 00:51:08,460
um have you guys started like making

1481
00:51:12,290 --> 00:51:10,740
what I call it production detections or

1482
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,300
are you still kind of in a testing phase

1483
00:51:15,470 --> 00:51:14,160
right now yeah so I would say you know

1484
00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:15,480
straight up we're definitely in the

1485
00:51:19,549 --> 00:51:17,220
testing phase right now uh but that's

1486
00:51:21,049 --> 00:51:19,559
the most important phase so uh the

1487
00:51:23,150 --> 00:51:21,059
terminology we've been using is we're in

1488
00:51:25,490 --> 00:51:23,160
phase one so we have this our first

1489
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,500
Observatory system we had it installed

1490
00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:27,599
on top of the Harvard College

1491
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,819
Observatory route for a while uh we're

1492
00:51:32,809 --> 00:51:31,200
just you know testing that everything

1493
00:51:34,250 --> 00:51:32,819
like the hardware is behaving as we're

1494
00:51:35,930 --> 00:51:34,260
expecting

1495
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:35,940
um and then we were able to move to

1496
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:38,280
another instrument site which uh

1497
00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:39,900
I'm not allowed to say where it's

1498
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:41,900
classified classified

1499
00:51:46,730 --> 00:51:44,579
but that is where we can you know do a

1500
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:46,740
little bit more rigorous testing

1501
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:48,960
um but yeah so definitely just like

1502
00:51:53,809 --> 00:51:51,900
making sure things are are running you

1503
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:53,819
know sometimes you need to go out there

1504
00:51:58,250 --> 00:51:57,119
and uh unplug some USB cables and

1505
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:58,260
replugging them in so we have to

1506
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:00,960
troubleshoot like why did that happen uh

1507
00:52:04,430 --> 00:52:03,119
and thinking about you know what that

1508
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:04,440
says in terms of our technology

1509
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:06,300
capability how hands off is it how

1510
00:52:09,170 --> 00:52:07,680
Hands-On is it so just determining all

1511
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,180
those things is really important in the

1512
00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:11,520
space one uh but also you know we have a

1513
00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:13,260
science traceability Matrix that says

1514
00:52:16,849 --> 00:52:15,660
all of our goals uh you know areas where

1515
00:52:18,349 --> 00:52:16,859
we want to make sure these instruments

1516
00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:18,359
are performing up to their

1517
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,760
specifications so just referring back to

1518
00:52:24,410 --> 00:52:22,680
that always which that'll be in our

1519
00:52:26,990 --> 00:52:24,420
paper better our papers that are coming

1520
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:27,000
out uh but just referring back to that

1521
00:52:31,549 --> 00:52:28,559
and making sure okay we said we wanted

1522
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:31,559
to get this resolution of objects uh we

1523
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:32,700
wouldn't be able to see objects moving

1524
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,800
like this fast or this far away uh just

1525
00:52:37,730 --> 00:52:36,000
making sure that we're actually seeing

1526
00:52:39,049 --> 00:52:37,740
that so and you define all those

1527
00:52:41,450 --> 00:52:39,059
parameters and some of your upcoming

1528
00:52:42,650 --> 00:52:41,460
papers exactly so those are very you

1529
00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:42,660
know they're detail and they're lined

1530
00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:44,040
out just like they would for any other

1531
00:52:48,530 --> 00:52:46,440
you know scientific project so I think

1532
00:52:50,510 --> 00:52:48,540
that is really important so we've kind

1533
00:52:52,430 --> 00:52:50,520
of put a pause

1534
00:52:55,790 --> 00:52:52,440
um or not put a pause we've just kind of

1535
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:55,800
taken this opportunity to now that

1536
00:53:00,530 --> 00:52:58,079
things are kind of going to make sure

1537
00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:00,540
we're doing the preliminary analysis and

1538
00:53:05,630 --> 00:53:03,720
again performing up to spec so uh that

1539
00:53:07,790 --> 00:53:05,640
involves a lot of observing birds and

1540
00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:07,800
planes for right now but I mean we have

1541
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:09,480
the cameras rolling so if anything

1542
00:53:14,210 --> 00:53:12,240
decides to give us a visit I guess we'll

1543
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:14,220
have it but it just you know

1544
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:16,079
the like like we were kind of speaking

1545
00:53:19,730 --> 00:53:17,940
about a little bit uh how you determine

1546
00:53:22,190 --> 00:53:19,740
that something is weird or anomalous

1547
00:53:25,370 --> 00:53:22,200
we're gonna let the like the AI

1548
00:53:27,230 --> 00:53:25,380
algorithms handle that for us so in

1549
00:53:29,569 --> 00:53:27,240
order for those you know algorithms to

1550
00:53:31,849 --> 00:53:29,579
operate they need to have collect large

1551
00:53:34,370 --> 00:53:31,859
amounts of data first so they need to

1552
00:53:37,370 --> 00:53:34,380
see a ton of planes and a ton of birds

1553
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,380
and a ton of insects uh just and so that

1554
00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:39,119
they can cluster them together in groups

1555
00:53:42,530 --> 00:53:40,980
and then once that clustering starts to

1556
00:53:43,790 --> 00:53:42,540
happen you can kind of see okay maybe

1557
00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:43,800
there's a couple points that are just

1558
00:53:48,410 --> 00:53:46,740
hanging out over here let's go and see

1559
00:53:50,770 --> 00:53:48,420
what those are about and then that's

1560
00:53:53,089 --> 00:53:50,780
where you know we maybe start to

1561
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,099
go into what we would say like anomaly

1562
00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:55,200
detection so it'll be definitely like a

1563
00:53:58,849 --> 00:53:57,119
continuous process but I I would say

1564
00:54:00,770 --> 00:53:58,859
we're we're definitely in like the

1565
00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:00,780
testing phase right now uh but you know

1566
00:54:05,450 --> 00:54:02,760
taking all this into consideration and

1567
00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:05,460
we're hoping soon uh you know I think

1568
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:08,339
our our goal right now is by August

1569
00:54:13,370 --> 00:54:11,520
where we uh where we kind of started the

1570
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:13,380
papers the introductory papers outlining

1571
00:54:16,670 --> 00:54:14,640
like the hardware of the system and the

1572
00:54:18,829 --> 00:54:16,680
goals last year uh to kind of have our

1573
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:18,839
first round of paper is about like data

1574
00:54:22,609 --> 00:54:20,640
and our interpretation and methodologies

1575
00:54:26,089 --> 00:54:22,619
there so definitely stay tuned for that

1576
00:54:28,490 --> 00:54:26,099
uh less than 2024 the fall yeah so I

1577
00:54:30,109 --> 00:54:28,500
guess depends on on what results what

1578
00:54:32,089 --> 00:54:30,119
journals we submit to and what their

1579
00:54:33,770 --> 00:54:32,099
processes are like for feedback and then

1580
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:33,780
how long they take to publish but I

1581
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,819
would say hopefully

1582
00:54:38,450 --> 00:54:37,200
um so it'll be like what batch paper

1583
00:54:40,609 --> 00:54:38,460
will come out and then a year later

1584
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:40,619
they'll be supplemented with more gotta

1585
00:54:45,410 --> 00:54:43,260
sell yeah so the papers I don't think

1586
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:45,420
are necessarily part of phase one but uh

1587
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:48,000
that kind of validation and testing that

1588
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:50,280
you talked about is phase one is phase

1589
00:54:54,829 --> 00:54:52,800
two more of just kind of the the data

1590
00:54:56,329 --> 00:54:54,839
collection and waiting to catch

1591
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:56,339
something or is that what phase two

1592
00:55:00,829 --> 00:54:58,020
would be yeah so I should clarify I

1593
00:55:02,329 --> 00:55:00,839
guess phase one is is more uh the phases

1594
00:55:04,970 --> 00:55:02,339
is more in reference to like what

1595
00:55:07,069 --> 00:55:04,980
Hardware reason so phase one includes

1596
00:55:08,450 --> 00:55:07,079
like the whole process of Designing and

1597
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:08,460
whatever so all of our papers that are

1598
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:09,599
coming out are about our phase one

1599
00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:12,000
instrumentation got it so it's outlining

1600
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:13,619
you know Hardware what we're using all

1601
00:55:18,770 --> 00:55:14,400
that

1602
00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:18,780
this and and for you know good science

1603
00:55:22,790 --> 00:55:20,220
studies you want to make sure that your

1604
00:55:24,290 --> 00:55:22,800
studies are uh able to be replicated so

1605
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:24,300
we want to outline all the details so

1606
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,160
that if someone another group or another

1607
00:55:30,349 --> 00:55:28,319
University would pick up our paper

1608
00:55:32,450 --> 00:55:30,359
follow everything exactly they would

1609
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:32,460
hope to get you know the same results

1610
00:55:36,349 --> 00:55:33,599
that we're getting that's the whole

1611
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:36,359
point of of these papers is to outline

1612
00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:37,440
you know what we're doing being

1613
00:55:40,970 --> 00:55:40,319
transparent about it as much as we can

1614
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:40,980
um

1615
00:55:45,410 --> 00:55:43,920
and yeah so that's kind of phase one and

1616
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:45,420
then we're kind of thinking about okay

1617
00:55:50,510 --> 00:55:48,960
like phase 1.5 maybe we replace so for

1618
00:55:53,089 --> 00:55:50,520
instance one thing we're talking about

1619
00:55:54,589 --> 00:55:53,099
now is we have um

1620
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:54,599
this dollar camera which I was talking

1621
00:55:57,710 --> 00:55:55,680
about earlier which is made up of

1622
00:56:00,349 --> 00:55:57,720
infrared cameras you know is it better

1623
00:56:02,569 --> 00:56:00,359
to have one big one or two smaller ones

1624
00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:02,579
based apart so things like that you just

1625
00:56:06,589 --> 00:56:03,780
have to test and kind of see what

1626
00:56:08,569 --> 00:56:06,599
happens and you can you know calculate

1627
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:08,579
Theory and everything all day but it

1628
00:56:10,790 --> 00:56:09,599
really comes down to you know when

1629
00:56:12,349 --> 00:56:10,800
you're out there when you're gonna what

1630
00:56:14,270 --> 00:56:12,359
are you what are you getting on what can

1631
00:56:17,210 --> 00:56:14,280
you do so you know just making sure our

1632
00:56:19,069 --> 00:56:17,220
pipelines are running smoothly and that

1633
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:19,079
the hardware is behaving expected expect

1634
00:56:24,890 --> 00:56:22,079
as expected is is you know the highlight

1635
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:24,900
of phase one but for phase two you know

1636
00:56:28,670 --> 00:56:28,079
that's adding a couple uh instruments so

1637
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:28,680
um

1638
00:56:33,290 --> 00:56:30,720
I guess I spoke uh

1639
00:56:34,790 --> 00:56:33,300
spoke excitedly the magnetometer isn't

1640
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:34,800
technically part of our our phase one

1641
00:56:38,450 --> 00:56:35,760
yet

1642
00:56:40,130 --> 00:56:38,460
um but something I work on so I

1643
00:56:41,569 --> 00:56:40,140
it's in the works so it's almost like

1644
00:56:43,010 --> 00:56:41,579
phase one through five it's almost like

1645
00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:43,020
in the middle but like that and then

1646
00:56:47,089 --> 00:56:45,180
we're adding a spectrometer uh so it's

1647
00:56:50,329 --> 00:56:47,099
just a couple things that are you know a

1648
00:56:51,770 --> 00:56:50,339
little bit further uh further ahead so

1649
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:51,780
that's like kind of phase two will be

1650
00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:53,760
like an upgrade to our systems or

1651
00:56:58,370 --> 00:56:55,980
thinking about you know again technology

1652
00:57:00,890 --> 00:56:58,380
is is always improving I'm talking about

1653
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,900
those infrared cameras well that same

1654
00:57:04,490 --> 00:57:02,400
company just came out with a plus

1655
00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:04,500
version it's more expensive but it has

1656
00:57:08,450 --> 00:57:06,300
been a resolution and all this so it's

1657
00:57:09,890 --> 00:57:08,460
like okay well you know where do where

1658
00:57:11,089 --> 00:57:09,900
do our limits lie do we need something

1659
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:11,099
that's better do we not need something

1660
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,720
that's better so it's just a lot of

1661
00:57:16,370 --> 00:57:14,400
those like little questions to answer

1662
00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:16,380
right now so so things are progressing

1663
00:57:19,970 --> 00:57:18,300
as expected yeah people shouldn't be

1664
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:19,980
waiting for some massive announcement

1665
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:21,839
tomorrow or anything yeah exactly no

1666
00:57:24,849 --> 00:57:23,280
it'll take it'll take a while to get

1667
00:57:27,650 --> 00:57:24,859
there just like I said because you know

1668
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:27,660
we are trying to do this very rigorously

1669
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:29,520
and and scientifically so even if we see

1670
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:30,720
something that doesn't quite make sense

1671
00:57:34,849 --> 00:57:33,359
uh we're gonna wait for our AI algorithm

1672
00:57:36,650 --> 00:57:34,859
to tell us that not just with our eyes

1673
00:57:39,950 --> 00:57:36,660
wait for the scientific process that

1674
00:57:41,329 --> 00:57:39,960
yeah exactly and then making sure uh you

1675
00:57:44,089 --> 00:57:41,339
know we're referencing all the other

1676
00:57:47,390 --> 00:57:44,099
instruments uh you know like we saw like

1677
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:47,400
a uh a bird fly by that was like in a

1678
00:57:50,089 --> 00:57:48,660
weird trajectory and we were like oh

1679
00:57:51,410 --> 00:57:50,099
that's so cool and exciting but it's

1680
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:51,420
like oh yeah we can see it's bird

1681
00:57:56,030 --> 00:57:53,040
because here it's a bird you know so it

1682
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:56,040
uh it humbles you very much yeah and you

1683
00:58:01,970 --> 00:57:59,280
know separating that I think uh you know

1684
00:58:03,950 --> 00:58:01,980
not everyone on the team is is you know

1685
00:58:05,630 --> 00:58:03,960
believing in the same outcome right you

1686
00:58:07,730 --> 00:58:05,640
know there there are some like I guess

1687
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:07,740
you would say like non-believers

1688
00:58:10,490 --> 00:58:09,119
um which I think is important to have on

1689
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,500
a project like this to make sure you

1690
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,760
know you're doing it right and you're

1691
00:58:16,130 --> 00:58:13,440
incorporating everyone's opinions and

1692
00:58:17,390 --> 00:58:16,140
viewpoints in into the uh approach and

1693
00:58:21,890 --> 00:58:17,400
discussion

1694
00:58:23,210 --> 00:58:21,900
but uh I mean I guess I would say I just

1695
00:58:26,750 --> 00:58:23,220
hope that

1696
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:26,760
find because I don't know but I just

1697
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:28,380
hope that this sets a standard that you

1698
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:30,480
can do science that is looking into

1699
00:58:34,609 --> 00:58:32,880
phenomena whatever that phenomena may be

1700
00:58:36,049 --> 00:58:34,619
awesome well I'm really happy you're

1701
00:58:37,970 --> 00:58:36,059
looking into it and you're taking an

1702
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:37,980
interest in it thanks yeah I mean thank

1703
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:39,780
you for you know bringing this to light

1704
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,799
and obviously it would have never

1705
00:58:45,770 --> 00:58:43,440
happened without you know the brave The

1706
00:58:47,450 --> 00:58:45,780
Bravery of many people who have had

1707
00:58:49,849 --> 00:58:47,460
experiences and witness accounts coming

1708
00:58:51,410 --> 00:58:49,859
forward and and really fighting for this

1709
00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:51,420
to get the attention I think it deserves

1710
00:58:56,790 --> 00:58:53,940
so awesome well we'll be watching and